Project VF Part VII - N/A All The Way!
Well another season is upon us and Project VF continues on with it's pursuit of power, speed and the truth in numbers. Not just dyno graphs on a page with correction fudges! We ended last season with the Big Red Rocket nearly punching into the 10s. The 6.0L on board complete with SQP/MAST 4.0 head and cam package. Fuelled with E85 in the tank, PVF went a best of This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
We asked back then where our readers would like to see it go and we here were leaning towards some more N/A action with a 4.0 bore x 4.0 Stroke combo complete with SQP/MAST 4.0 cylinder heads really seeing favour. Our readers agreed! So no blowers and N/A All the Way!!
For many years we have told our customers that the true story of strokers LS engines can't be seen on dyno graphs. They don't make rediculous extra top end power in comparison to their standard stroke brothers but they drive life nothing else. The mid range power increase is where it is at and this extra power is what gets these big cars flying. So we thought it was time to retire the 6L and get some stroker power into PVF. Starting with a 402 that we recently traded in from one of our customers after he had sold his Maloo, we tore the 110000km motor down for a freshen up and update. Plan was to use EXACTLY everything as per Project VF had in it to see the true difference that an extra 35 cubic inches of displacement would make to how the car rand the quarter...a true back to back using the same cam, same heads, same valve train, same headers, same intake manifold, same fuel, same diff ratio, same torque converter, same weight, same tyres, same driver and the same track! Can't control the variable any more than that hey??
Here are some photos of the build and fitting into Project VF....
Short motor built and ready for covers. Callies Compstar rotating hanging onto JE Forged pistons.
The most misunderstood and rarely performed task of engine building....degreeing cams. Valve events rule the movement of air through the engine.Not much chance of the cam design working right if it isn't zeroed in! Rollmater double row with JWIS chain is given the task of turning the cam with accuracy..
Often dismissed as junk, GM's oil pumps are second to none. They have the highest quality castings available and clearances that the after market wish for. GM validate these parts and trust them to give fault free service in their warranty period. SQP use GM pumps exclusively...we have never seen one fail in 16 years of LS engine building that wasn't caused by other issues. Standard cam bolts? Yeah...they hold the sprocket to the cam...they don't drive it!!
Why this photo again? Because it is cool....
So 6L out...check out that green meanie converter! Dominator all the way!
402 stroker in the hole...
There is that 4.0 again!! Hiding behind the harness...
Same manifold it left the factory with....
With the engine fitted up and initial road logging completed to get a few kilometres on the new motor, it was time to hit the dyno. What would the gains be from last year with the 6L engine on E85? Same dyno, same tyres, same operator but now on UIltimate 98 with 402 engine....
Well if you have booked it in for a power upgrade you might be a bit pissed off hey? Only shows another 8rwhp over the E85 tune up from last year! If we compare it ot the last time it was on Ultimate 98 it is showing 30 rwhp up. This is with an unlocked converter blah blah. But the true story is the power under the curve. Everytime with Project VF we have made more power earlier in the rpm range and carried it, the car has gone faster. Everytime we lowered midrange power and increased peak...the car went slower. In the midrange the stroker has picked up near 30rwhp over the E85 tuned 6L. It is near 45rwhp better than the Ultimate 98 tune that saw it running in the 11.20s...11.25@121mph to be exact.
This next graph is an interesting twist....we all hear how dynos do this on certain days and dynos do that. We hear endless excuses for how a 500rwhp car mysteriously won't make that power again on a different dyno with a different operator. Well what happens in this next graph is that the room is heating up and giving better "correction conditions." Dynos all use SAE weather correction to standardise figures such that you can use them on a 20degree 40% humidity day or a 30 degree 50% humidity day and get the same numbers. This enables you to be able to revisit and continue on your testing. It also has issues nd can skew the test results. As the "room" heats up, the correction factor compensates for the less dense air entering the engine...sadly it adds some power via corrected numbers. There are no changes to Project VF before the high power runs popped up...SQP always hot laps our cars on the dyno as much as the cooling system and tyres allow. We don't do cool runs as this is fake. No car stops after the burnout to cool off before the pass!! Looks good on graphs but is as real as unicorn shit!! Had a dyno run that was never repeated again? make a bunch more power at the tuners than anywhere else and even on their dyno again after a retune?? Yeah maybe Mr SAE was responsible...
So with a whole bunch more power under the curve and not a lot more at peak it was time to attack the track...first pass was not indicative of it's protential as the track was green and the big bus slipped its way down the track to an 11.16@122.85mph. Not too shabby for a best pass on Ultimate 98 but there looks to be plenty more in the tank....
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. mph! Smashed the ten second barrier! Project VF running 10 second quarters N/A? Yeah ha!! Not just a 10 but a REAL 10.
The 402 was a jet out of the hole with a 1.52 60' time...really trucked out. Lined it up again as rain was looming...
slower to the 60" sadly and down came the rain....end of night but a great way to start the season. Last year we went to the effort of getting it onto the ANDRA scales and having it signed off by an ANDRA Tech as we had heard calls that VFs are light weight cars... PVF tips the scales at over 4000lb! That is no lightweight and for the stroker to push it down the track in 10 second times is stunning. No blower. No turbo. No nitrous. N/A ALL THE WAY!
On inspection, we found that the slicks were getting into the guards somewhat now the car left harder. This issue wasn't there last year. In come Des Wong from AutoFX WA and rolled the guards on Project VF. Thanks Des! Such short notice and he got it done!! Champion bloke and a great job.
Back Again!
26/10/2016
With having the first track attack rain out and spending the rest of the evening holding an umbrella for Joycey to change wheels such that I could drive Project VF home, we headed down for another try and maybe some more mirth and merriment!! Really just looking to see where the new combo will go to, we left everything alone and started over again. Some logging and careful tuning would be the call of the day.
First lap of and the track was showing signs of being slippery through first gear. We are down at the 60' and can audibly hear it squealing through first gear... 10.91@123.53mph. That's cool.
Next lap out...track not getting us where we need to be. This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. . Don't bother with the weather reading...the station wasn't on!
We hung around a while longer and went for one more...no squealing tyres this time... 10.884@124.15mph. New PB JUST!. But we found the tyres are turning on the rims....hmmm. More stuff to sort!
We reckon we have established a great baseline for us to work forward from now. Project VF has picked up a full .37 second and 3.5mph by the addition of nothing more than a 4.0 stroke! Crazy gains but pretty much exactly what the dyno showed. Via a Morosso speed calculator, it has gained near 45 weight shifter horsepower! That is a great gain. Power under the curve...can't often be seen but never can it be beaten! In the next period of time we plan on changing some bolt on items that we found to be of no value to Project VF when it had the 6L motor in. They made it slower. We will now test them again on the 402 and see if we can get a gain from them given the bigger engine capacity. Stay tuned!!
Back To the Future...
3/11/16
photo by Fully Automotive- http://www.fullyautomotive.com/
Followers of Project VF will remember us doing some back to back testing with header sizes and design on Project VF. Back in November 2014 we established a base line of 11.59@120.48mph with an off the shelf DPE 1 3/4" 4-1 headers. We then changed them out for a set of "big is better 1 7/8" DPE header with merge collectors. Result was it slowed the 6L engine over the quarter mile and trapped a best of 11.68@119.52mph. Near a 1/10" of a second step backards. So much for the need for 1 7/8" headers and the claims they are required on your 6L Commodore were blown away....unless you wanted to slow it down! We then went on to make a set of headers up in 1 3/4" with a merge collector. This saw further improvement over the off the shelf headers with This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. indicating the small merge header accellerated the car better. These pipes were still on the car when the stroker 402 went in.
Last trip to the 'Plex we set a new baseline with the SQP 402 4.0 headed 6L stroker running a PB of This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. mph. First step on the 402 development was going to be revisiting the header issue and the claims that 1 7/8" pipes are totally necessary to get real speed from these heavy cars. We had previously indicated that we believed that the smaller pipe made for a sharper, quicker accelerating car even on strokers and mild blown applications. Constantly faced with opinion to the opposite we thought that a true back to back on PVF 402 would be a defining point to the discussion! Surely the big 402" engine would show a gain from a step up to 1 7/8" pipes...lets get some on and find out!
So this is the SQP merge 1 3/4" primary headers we set the baseline with.
Off the car and side by side with the 1 7/8 primary 3" murge collector DPE headers.
Pipe shape is near identical...diameter is the big changer.
Headers on the car reconnected to the DPE 3" exhaust....GAME ON!!
With anticipation we hit the dyno....quick dyno session and the results are in!
Well that is a nice gain on the dyno showing an increase of 15rwhp. Is it a true gain or are we seeing the vagaries of dyno testing? And that being used as the be all of testing? With weather conditions reaching into the low 30s on the day of the dyno testing, the SAE correction favoured an increase in power. For every 1% of correction we get 4.5hp at the peak indicated power....so do we have a gain or are we looking at the same thing with SAE help? Only the track will tell...
So here we are again! Test driver and master wheel changer...Shane Joyce ready fire up!!
So first run out the start line was very green having only just been scraped after a recent test and tune. So back around after resetting tyre pressures...
Hmmm nothing inspiring there...quick check of the log on EFILive, small changes to the tune and send her again...
WOW this is starting to look like a fizz for the big pipes AGAIN! The car is slower in the 60', slower through the track and DOWN on mph. Not drastic but DEFINITELY no improvement. Some more small tune changes and we try again...
Well that is getting close to the small pipes BUT still down. Running out of things to try, we threw the sink at PVF tune wise and sent her again after a long cool down...
It just isnt there! The atmospherics were very similar to the last time we were down a week ago...the track is a little soft in the 60' but not any worse than last visit...After doing 6 laps and doing what we could to get the best from the changes...it was SLOWER! Not anywhere near as dramatically as with the 6L but none the less the car made no improvement over the 1 3/4" pipes on a 402" engine turning 7200rpm at WOT on a drag strip...never mind the loss of response the big pipe caused. Again the big pipes are a fail...harder to keep on the tyres in the burnout as it dropped off power easier at mid throttle positions and slower et wise down the track...never mind less mph! That is the final nail as it indicated that the car just flat out doesn't accelerate as hard as it did previously. 1 7/8 pipes required on your 402? MYTH BUSTED!! Like all racers, we wanted the dyno to be for real and a gain to be achieved. Sdaly it looks like Mr SAE found us some power and the car was no quicker in the real world. Where to next?
FAST Test Take 3!
24/11/16
So having dispelled the big pipe myth, it is time to get the FAST back on and see if an intake change will actually be an upgrade on the 402' engine. Readers will remember that the FAST intake was given a damn good shake on the 6L with hope it would show some power. Each time we fitted it...the car went slower. How would it go on the 402? In the interest of controlling as many variables as possible, we have left the 1 7/8" headers on so we can use last trip as the baseline...manifold and throttle body are the only changes. Let check it out.
You would reckon this thing would pull itself apart the number of times it has had intakes off and on...
FAST ON...
Rails require spacers for the injectors but same injectors and rails.
Nick Williams 102 Throttle body fitted to make sure there is no air restriction.
With manifold fitted up we hit the dyno for a quick tune session...adjustments made...there was next to nothing to see on the dyno...a little lost on the low end of the curve but no gains. We have been here before though with the vagaries of rear wheel dynos and SAE correction so no hardship just yet...we will settle this at the track.
Driven down and tyres changed over we took it to the line...let the real world logging and tuning begin.
Nothing to write home over right here and now first run out but lets be optimistic....ET is an instant improve from the big pipe change.
Next run out 10.89@124.24mph! PB on the mph so we are showing some power gain...even faster than with the small pipes.
Next run out we experience more tyre spin and the 60' slowed to 1.549...PVF still went 10.91@124.31mph. Another PB on speed and first time over 200kph!
Last lap of the night we lost some more again in the 60' due to the track going This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. .
So in summary it is safe to say the FAST intake and MW TB contributed to a gain in power on the 402. Using the tried and tested Moroso Speed calculator, the FAST added around 12 weight shifted horsepower. Enough to justify the cost? That would have to be in the eyes of the buyer! But clearly there is a gain on this engine with this intake. Now if we could just get some of the squirt back through the 300' area...might be time for the small pipes again. See you soon!!
Xmas FASTing.
28/12/2016
So just because it is the Christmas break it doesn't mean we are not going to the track. Last venture down with the large 1 7/8" headers and FAST 102 intake resulted in a marginal increase in mph in favour of the FAST intake. We decided to refit the smaller 1 3/4" headers with merge collector that had proven to be the FASTEST combo earlier in the year on the 402" stroker engine. What we want to see is if the bigger intake gains anything on the smaller pipes over the quarter mile.
Pipes on, slicks on...at the track again...
First lap out, no improvement. But lets look at the numbers...speed was down, ET was slower but look at the 60'! Blisteringly quick on a green track with the small pipes again.
PVF402 is even quicker to the 60' next lap out and knocking on the door of a PB!
But the track had gone away...slower in the 60 foot but still goes 11.90.
PVF402 audably squeales the tyres through first gear every lap. The small pipe conclusively is the quickest pipe over the short distance and has no hindrance to power despite its smaller diameter. Some have criticised SQP and the data we have given and published for FREE to anyone who wants to read it. Our challenge to those that would say our testing is flawed...put it up and show us your data. We have published our with full integrity holding variables as tight as possible to test the parts and not the conditions etc. No fudges. No skewing to make a point. We gain nothing by not selling parts and we have all the parts we have tested available. What we have tried to do with PVF and PVF402 is show how a combination of parts works together and what parts offer the best value to you the reader to get your car hopping down the quarter and quicker on the street. So in summary on the FAST intake...we just can't see where the value in that part exists in making your street car faster. It shows some power on the dyno but loses too much under the curve to make it a value piece for the street...and that is on a 402" stroker that never gets under 6000 rpm once it leaves the start line never mind a cammed 6 litre! The big pipes...well in combination with the FAST intake we saw a marginal increase in speed... (.41kph!) over the small pipes but the car accelerates out of the hole quicker with the small pipe. Imagine rolling the throttle on whilst running down the freeway...the seat of the pants dyno feels the small pipes make the engine sharper...the 60' shows the car is sharper. Rarely are you at 6500rpm on the road but regulary you are at 4500rpm. This is where the smaller pipes get it going! We have no gain in making data up to prove the small pipe a better thing even on a 402 making over 620 weight shift hp!! Not SAE corrected roller HP!!!! The larger pipes are more expensive and we would make better money out of selling those... So upgrade path?? Spend your money on a stroker kit with some forged pistons is you want to amp up your streeter...save the FAST money and put in to a crank! You already have 1 3/4" pipes on? No need to change them for the stroker!
The Final Countdown...
30/6/2017
Well all good things must come to an end eventually. We got busy helping customers live their dream towards the end of the season...but snuck in one last track attack with PVF. Last season we saw the little 6L gain 1.6 tenths and 2mph so we thought we should get it on Korn again and see how it goes. So to recap...
We put the smaller pipes back on it...no slower...
We chucked her on E85 with the FAST on...no quicker but no slower and conclusively proved the FAST is ZERO value on any self respecting street car.
So last test- back to the factory intake with small pipes on 402" as per where we started at the beginning of the year but this time on Korn! How can we lose? First full run of the season the big girl pealed off a This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. on BP Ultimate 98. Fuel in and baseline set off the dyno. To the track
10.89@123.98mph isn't a bad shake down. Reset tyre pressures and back on the track...
60' was blistering but spun the tyres at 120' or so...reload and try again....
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. ! PB! Yaah! No much of an improvement but I have lost races in Doorslammer by less!! We will take it. Reload and hit it for one more...
Another PB! This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. . Great way to finish the night. Interestingly though E85 has no where near the impact on this bigger 402 engine as it did on the little 6L engine. Power under the curve really stood up on the lower compression, small capacity engine. Clearly with the fat toque curve of the 402, the percentages were lower so the gains far less and really for the hassle of getting fuel and the rest of the bullshit that goes with E85...the gains were no where near worth the effort!
So sadly in a way, this brings us to the end of Project VF. So what did we learn from it? Well the whole idea of PVF was to show upgrade pathways and test some products along the way. To truly back to back "upgrades" and see if they offered a bang for the $$ or just a profit to those that sell them. We busted some myths along the way and took direct criticism for our testing, which we gave the results of to anyone who could be bothered reading FOR FREE!. Disappointingly some of the critism tried to dispel what we showed with PVF but offered no back to back data that could be held up for review! So sad the performance industry has those that would seek to discredit with nothing but hypothesis as evidence! We still ose sales today on exhaust system packages as guys think they need 1 7/8" headers over 1 3/4" on their 6L as "Billy Blogs" rates them but has no data to show a gain to the larger pipes. "But he ran blah blah with 1 7/8"" we hear..."Well what did he run with 1 3/4"?" we reply....blank responce. No data....sigh. Just bling faith.
Competition leads to innovation and this is the major reason SQP put so much time and effort into track testing what we do. PVF has lead to a new cylinder head configuration and some cool exhaust stuff. Never mind local torque converter development. We have shown the dyno is great for selling shit but the track is the only way to prove you got what you paid for...something we have long believed as we track tested a LONG time before dynos were on every corner. We spent the 90s running Ravo...then the last 17 years at the 'Plex. PVF did 100s of logged laps alone. Data from that is what builds the product that SQP sell. Not hypothesis........or dreams. We also proved the 6L80E trans to be a mighty unit when combined with good calibrating. PVF started life in an era when 6L80s were thrown to the side to fit a 1960s T400 a the 6L80s were crap according to those that were burning them up and couldn't get them to shift. WOW! Those attitudes have changed in recent times...PVF is still fitted with the trans it left the factory with....100s of drag laps later.
The journey-
We started with a stock VF SSV 6L Auto straight off the showroom floor. We ended with a seriously quick, full weight VF SSV with jack in the boot running 10.80s@124mph! Driven to and from the track EVERYTIME. One damn fast street car in anyones book. And a hell of a lot of fun along the way. It went 11.03@123mph with a 6L FULL WEIGHT SEDAN with a head and cam package. That is tough! We set out with a sedan in the first place as all our previous track cars had been utes...we wanted a full weight everyday deal that we could replicate for our customers with their cars. This completed the "buyers guide" approach.
Once again we would like to thank Shane Joyce for his commitment to this project. Without his support and expert wheel changes, it would never of gone this far. Thanks Joycey once again for your enthusiasm and time.
We would also like to thank you guys for taking the time to read along. It truly is with you guys in mind that we went after this Project. We got so sick of all the supposed 500rwhp VEs around that can't run 114mph that we thought it was time to put some of the bullshit to bed. Over all the excuses and hyped dyno numbers. We put out money where our mouth is and went to the track. We never set out to build the fastest or anything long those lines. We just wanted to show what 17 years of GenIII/IV development does at the track. We got sick of all the confusion that inflated dyno graphs create in the market place. Given there have been many faster VEs than PVF with some running flat 11s cam only long ago with 6.2L cam only. Those performances were never in question.
As for Project VF- she is up For Sale! 6500km on the clock...back seat sat in twice! As new condition through out with more extras than Ben Hurr. Interested in a low km hotrod? Come and have a chat as to what spec and see what deal we can do. Must make space for a new Project...
We will be back......................................................
<< Project VF Part VI - Naturally Aspirated Wrap Up...
